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Read it, comment, and share it with your friendsEh, boycott CSS Import too…
I’m not trying to be Mr. Anti-CSS-Gallery here, really, I’m not. I know that since I run one myself, I should avoid criticizing other galleries as much as possible. I don’t even frequent other CSS Galleries… I’m not interested in them, and occasionally I might browse one or two for inspiration… but sometimes I just come across things that bother me. It’s happened before (with CSS Remix) and it’s happened now with CSS Import.
I’ll try and make this quick: Sometime at the beginning of this month, whoever runs CSS Import featured “The Eschaton.” And to be honest, the site is a bit clever. It’s a cool Wordpress Theme, at least. But take a look at it; it’s a theme that features a few combinations of the blue and silver Windows XP themes, and one of the OSX theme (and be warned, the R18 theme has a pornographic image). I made a judgment of the design, and I think it’s justified: the visual design is a copy-paste of what you have on your desktop, and that’s plagiarism.
Now I shouldn’t have to repeat my whole belief that people who run galleries should maintain some level of ethics; don’t award people for plagiarism, bad practices, etc. Yes, “The Eschaton” looks nice, and whoever designed it did a decent job with Javascript and CSS in implementing the look; but unless that design features original, or at least, license-free graphics, it doesn’t belong in a gallery. At all.
Maybe I’m just bitter because I pay people when I want graphics work done, rather than just stealing from Apple and Microsoft… and being that I’m too poor to actually pay anyone, I just stick to my own lousy graphics and never get featured in any galleries. There isn’t anything wrong with that, but I’m not bitter. I just hate plagiarism, especially in design, because it happens a lot and people rarely see it as a problem. There are already a bunch of people defending this design over on the thread at CSS Import, and rather than discuss the issue of plagiarism, they have just decided to look at my own work and criticize me, saying the often said “your work is ugly, so move on.” Which, of course, is a load of crap… I know I’m not a good designer, and I try to tell people that I’m not an artist. I never said I was. I do coding and if I was paired up with a good designer, our combined work would be really nice… but that doesn’t happen. Regardless, I don’t have to be a good designer to have an opinion on design ethics. I don’t have to be a good designer to have an opinion on design, period. I think this site doesn’t belong in CSS Import, and I’m saying it right now:
CSS Import is bollocks.
I’d love to hear a response from whoever runs CSS Import, but it looks like he/she likes to play it safe by avoiding the comments entirely. Whatever, just another gallery I don’t intend to visit again.
p.s. I don’t mean to sound like I’m whining, that’s just how this came out. Please share your ideas on this issue… do you think this design is plagiarism? Should CSS Import have featured it? Do I have a right to criticize the work of others?
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19 Comments
Responses to my articleIt does sound like whining, and it’s ridiculous to the point of stupidity.
No, it’s not an original design in concept, but it’s a clever and creative use of known imagery. I don’t think you can call it plagiarism in any stretch of the term, no one is trying to say they invented windows or mac ui. Are you plagiarizing notebook paper on ihavesenioritis.com ? Maybe someone incorporating leaves in their design is plagiarizing trees? Using common visual elements extant in popular culture is a common device, and there’s nothing wrong with it.
If they were trying to sell it, or take credit for the UI elements, there would be a problem, otherwise it’s just a rather clever, but mediocre website layout.
Alex, it doesn’t matter what the use is; there’s no use in which one is allowed to “borrow” these images. Someone incorporating leaves is plagiarizing if someone else made the images and retained the rights. If the images were released no-license/creative commons, then that would make it okay.
Windows/Mac OSX UI’s are not “common visual elements extant in popular culture,” they are copyrighted material. I’m not saying one shouldn’t use them; “lookalike” themes are very common. I am just saying that one should not get credit from a CSS gallery for it.
I do not believe this site is plagiarism.
I was actually rather surprised by this blog entry of yours. I also thought it was a cute/clever method of creating a website. He’s not selling anything, he’s just exploring the link between the web and the desktop. . . he is recreating a well-known environment, just as many other designers do on the web. Nothing more — you seem especially bitter about this site — almost abnormally so — as if something else is bothering you and you’re taking it out on CSS Import.
If myself and others have opinions that are different than yours regarding this site . . . just as CSS Import does . . . then I think it’s rather harsh to state that the whole of CSS Import is “bollocks”. This is all coming from someone who hates plagiarism easily as much as you do.
Erin: I have to admit, I’m really harsh when it comes to ethics on the web. We’ll just have to agree to disagree.
Grow up man. When your in a hole, stop digging already.
And that’s fine that we disagree. You simply asked what other people thought of the situation. . . so I shared. I’m not sure why I would ever want to in the future, though, if you’re just going to say “I disagree” instead of doing something along the lines of thanking me for sharing my opinion, which is what you asked for. . .
Rob: It’s my blog. Let me dig as far as I want.
erin: I’m sorry that disagreeing sounded like I wasn’t grateful. I’m having a hard time dealing with the difficult comments and respectfully handling the reasonable ones at the same time. I am very grateful for your comments, it just doesn’t sound that way because posts like these go something like this:
I’m thinking more and more I should just stop at point 1, but if/when I get to that point it won’t be christianmontoya.com anymore, just christianmontoya.com minus any of my opinions that others don’t share. That sounds like a bad thing.
“Copy-and-paste” sums it perfectly. I also thought it should be viewed as plagiarism since “copy-and-paste” falls under that category when material is copyrighted. I, too, am surprised that people are overlooking the plagiarism part, but it’s almost to be expected. Paste one copyrighted image on your site and I’m sure everyone will have nasty things to say about you.
I also notice that people over at the thread are quick to point out that you’re not an artist and hence, your entire argument is disregarded. How does that make sense? Christian, you’re no Picasso, which probably means you don’t have fully functioning eyes and a brain with which to pick up on things like plagiarism. Pfft.
Anyway, if noone thinks that’s plagiarism, I may as well collect all the rest of the images Windows and Apple has to offer an use them in my website. Noone will mind if I have a music player in the corner that’s the image of an ipod, right? It’s a “common visual element” after all.
Ah you’ve opened the can o worms I had a while back when I pointed out plagarism on another site. I really think criticising your website isn’t a great way for people to argue their point. I would have far more respect for those that express their opinion without resorting to personal attacks on your ability.
Discussions on plagarism / what people think about designs is important and the debate has reduced to playground nah nah you’re site doesn’t blah so you can’t speak. Aside from what I think about the design, I think the debate has become invalid due to personal attacks, for me that is a shame as I think any conversation / anyone’s opinion is worth listening to if they do it without playground slap fests.
I think you are entitled to an opinion - that is what comments are for. You are also entitled to being able to state your case without being publically attacked. So, what if they may think your design isn’t good. You aren’t saying you are the greatest designer since sliced bread - you even stated that yourself in the comments - you are offering your opinion and why that can’t be respected makes me sad.
Bro, you gotta relax about this stuff. It seems that more and more you are getting to be a little too conservative regarding web design. I personally don’t like the appearance of the site you mentioned, but it is creative and is NOT plagarism.
If I copied an english paper of your’s and made off like it was my own, that would be plagarism. But here, anyone and everyone who visits that site knows for sure that its Windows, and that he did not design it. He clearly meant to emulate a Windows desktop.
Take a chill pill man, you’re suckin the fun out of web design.
Michael: I admit, I do take this stuff quite seriously… not the design itself, but the business of giving out recognition. But at least this once, I’ll drop it. Thanks Michael.
I think you’re still missing the point.
It’s a CSS gallery. Regardless of how original or ripped off the images you use are, it’s a CSS gallery, not a graphic design gallery, right? Aren’t they showcasing the ability to layout and style things using CSS? Doesn’t that mean that the gallery is showcasing the code rather than the images?
As I said before, they’re not taking credit for the images, nor are they trying to sell them. They may very well be taking credit for the code they did to produce a workable wordpress theme, but that’s valid. A few minutes in photoshop using the image sizes you can have an entirely non-ripped-off design.
Have you ever thought you might look like an ass for sticking to your opinion because your opinion is assinine? Honestly, you have the right to your opinion of course but you’re not being rational about it, that’s the key.
Or do you think it’s reasonable to call for a boycott on a gallery for one member’s submission, however good or bad it is? Let alone for a problem that you are in the vast majority of acknowledging as a problem? You hate the design, fine… leave it at the design, contact the creator instead of ballooning it into some nonexistent drama.
Alex: OK, I see your argument and the problem is that you do not understand my philosophy about CSS galleries.
The fact is that CSS is still a small part of the web design community and many designers still do not see CSS as a professional tool. I do believe that starting a CSS gallery and slapping ads across it makes one a representative of CSS, and if one is going to promote CSS as a professional tool and get respect for CSS from the entire design community, then one ought to follow a certain level of standards. Besides, CSS Import is a design gallery for designs made with CSS, not the other way around. The design is the focal point here, CSS is just a requirement.
So I will be very clear: I believe that CSS Import, and every other CSS gallery, should make it a point not to promote designs that are not original. Yes, this site in question has original CSS, but the graphics are ripped and while the site may be original in its concept, I don’t believe that it creates a good image for CSS supporters that it is receiving recognition as a “quality design.”
As for boycotting a gallery for one entry, I’ve done it twice before. Maybe I’m a jerk… scratch that, I am a jerk… for strictly grouping every CSS gallery I find fault with into the “do not visit” pile. Well, CSS is a main topic around here and I do think it is important to talk about issues like these. This post isn’t about “some nonexistent drama,” it’s a problem that keeps recurring throughout the design community. The question here shouldn’t be whether or not CSS Import is justified in promoting an unoriginal design; I’ve already made it clear now and in the past that such a thing is unacceptable. The question here is just whether or not the site featured is plagiarism, and obviously we can see from this thread that a small minority of people think it is. There’s nothing to take up with the creator since there’s nothing inherently wrong with the site itself, unless Microsoft and Apple plan on enforcing their copyrights that much, which they won’t, ever. This gallery is the one saying that design like this is comparable to original designs, and that’s what I take issue with.
Exactly, like I said, highly irrational. Sorry for wasting your time and mine.
Is it really reasonable to boycott a site over one design? People make mistakes. This would be like you writing a blog entry I very much disagree with and then saying “boycott this guy”. Don’t people (and websites) deserve at least a chance or two? Nobody is perfect. And the owners of the gallery perhaps honestly believed they weren’t doing anything wrong.
I understand your feelings, but does your extreme intolerance and boycott attitude truly help the design community? In the end, would convincing all of your reads to boycott CSS Import truly move CSS and design forward?
Perhaps having a direct conversation with the owner/moderators at CSS Import would be a smarter, more effective method of championing your cause. The harshness with which you are willing to completely ban sites forever from your life because of one disagreement (or one big mess up, in your mind) is a bit frightening. To me it shows a true lack of love, patience, kindness, forgiveness, and goodwill.
Erin: I guess I’m being a bit dishonest here, in that I’m being sensationalist by using the word “boycott.” I could take advantage of the contact form and get in touch with the site owner directly. I just felt up until now that whoever it is must have been avoiding the issue since the comments I made over at CSS Import didn’t elicit any response from him/her.
As for not being compassionate, well, the thing with questioning ethics is that I’m proposing an ultimatum from the start here… it’s not really a place to be compassionate… if the site owner actually were to take the entry down, I could get into forgiveness, but not until then. Patience and kindness would be two areas where I’ve probably messed up (I could have definitely worded this entry differently), but love I have to reserve for more serious matters.
Anyway, I’ll give that contact form a try real soon. Thanks.
Erin: I think there have been people who have boycotted Christian’s blog in the past because of one entry. I remember reading comments that stated that and the exclamatory “I’M NEVER COMING BACK HERE AGAIN!”
(I just thought I should mention that.)
Perhaps I’m one of the only people here who agree with Christian. CSS galleries should be highlighting new and original work that stretches the use of CSS, not blatantly stealing from other people’s work. I don’t see how it can be justified as NOT stealing, because those images definitely are copyrighted. Even if it is recognizably MS/Apple, it’s still stealing. MS has recently enforced this against copycat Vista themes for XP.
It is a neat little bit of JS though, but by definition it shouldn’t be in a CSS gallery because I see no novel uses of CSS in that design. CSS Import I guess has looser standards; it’s turning into merely “Cool site of the day” instead of “Example of CSS-based design site of the day.”
Well, Stephen of CSS Import responded to the comments on his site, finally:
Then milo said:
In response to that, Stephen said:
So there you have it. CSS Import is trying to be more of a “cool site of the day” and while Stephen does find my concerns valid, he’s not planning on taking the site down.
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